*FINAL UPDATE*...so....any Oppos know anything about repairing Antique clocks?

"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike) 08/04/2019 at 11:45 • Filed to: Oppoclock

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*UPDATE 4* - Welp, I’ll not pester you folks any more with it, but I did a lot more research this morning....finally learned what it is! It’s an Ansonia Andes from roughly 1906 (they made it a few years before and after that, but it is listed in their 1906 catalog).

I set it going again this morning set to the correct time, though still without the hands and face and it’s been keeping perfect time so far! :)

I’m pumped....makes me want to learn even more about old clocks....brilliant pieces of engineering, and to think it still works perfectly with minimal maintenance these 110 or so years later...

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*UPDATE 3* - It seems to....WORK?!?!? I have no idea if it was wound when I got it, but I set the pendulum ticking with the face and hands off and stick a toothpick gently in the hole for the pin that holes the hands on just so I could tell if the minute hand shaft was moving, and put a VERY tiny marker dot on the hour hand shaft to see if that was moving....low and behold, some time later...

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I have no idea what time it is set to as...obviously, no hands or clock face, but this was the tail end of a 5pm chime! :D

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*UPDATE 2* - I DID IT! I managed to get the hour hand off, and because of that, the clock face! The mechanism looks surprisingly clean in here - still shiny!

There are little to no markings on the movement, other than a “9 1/” engraved on the lower right...Guessing it’s supposed to be ‘9 1/2'...have to figure out what that means...?

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*UPDATE 1* - Took a closer look at the Hour hand on the clock this morning in better light...

...also broke out the trusty Nikon D3300 DSLR camera I sadly don’t use anywhere as near as much as I should to get a hi-def pic of the Hour hand mount. On closer inspection....it’s sortof press fit...ish? The hand seems to be held in place by a...clip(?)...that’s slid onto the shaft. The shaft coming from the gear mentioned in my earlier post is the complete brass ring in the center. The square shaft in the middle is the shaft for the Minute hand that was held in with the pin. The semi-circle brass is the ‘clip’ that the hour hand seems to go around. The ‘clip’ though doesn’t seem to have any detents it’s locked into like a circlip on a car, it just LOOKS like it’s been slid onto the shaft? Crappy MS Paint drawing for reference if that pic doesn’t make enough sense:

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I’d commented on one of Berang’s posts about this, but I may as well mention it to all of you!

I was GIVEN a beautiful old Ansonia clock at a yard sale a few months ago where a lady was just trying to get rid of things before she moved. No idea the age of it, but some light research says somewhere between 1900-1920ish (probably). I’m missing the key for it and she told us it doesn’t work. Other than the key, everything seems to be there and complete though, as far as I can tell!

I like to tinker, so I decided to try and get the face off so I could look at the movement and see how damaged or degraded things look before I decide what to do with it. I can’t see the movement in detail until I get the face off, and the hands have to be removed before the face can be removed.

The hands looked like they are held on with a pin so I gently pulled the pin out and the Minute hand came off no problem, but I can’t get the Hour hand off as it looks like a different kind of fit? It almost looks like it is press-fit to a shaft with a gear that goes down back behind the face. I can’t take the face of the clock off to look at the gearing without removing that hour hand, but am not sure how to safely do so without damaging anything...the following pic is the way the hour hand is mounted - you can see the pin hole and squared shaft that the minute hand was mounted to, but the hour hand doesn’t seem to just ‘lift’ off the same way...

I’d appreciate any information that anybody has!

Here is the clock in it’s entirety and the maker information on the face...it’s a very nice old piece! :)

fintail > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/02/2019 at 21:51

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This style is commonly called a “kitchen clock” (or a shelf clock). Possibly made out of oak, design pressed in like on an old kitchen chair. I suspect it is closer to 1900. My mom has a thing for these and I have seen many over the years.

All I know is don’t use WD-40 for lubrication.

DipodomysDeserti > fintail 08/02/2019 at 21:55

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“ All I know is don’t use WD-40 for lubrication.”

Ever. For anything, really.

Kiltedpadre > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/02/2019 at 22:03

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I may just have a book that would be helpful with this. It says a gentle pulling and slight twisting is almost always  the answer. Unfortunately it doesn’t list any other options.

Cash Rewards > Kiltedpadre 08/02/2019 at 22:15

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Damn. As a question on oppo and you will get an answer

Kiltedpadre > Cash Rewards 08/02/2019 at 22:25

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We do have quite a few unexpected topics well covered here.

I can take pictures of full pages if you need anything.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > DipodomysDeserti 08/02/2019 at 22:35

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Yup, I know you are supposed to use specialty clock oil, which I have none of...if I can figure out it’s in working shape, I’ll pick some up...but I have to get the stupid face off first!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Kiltedpadre 08/02/2019 at 22:37

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Hmm...it does seem like the hour hand is fit on some sort of pipe arrangement that slides over another tube or pipe perhaps. I didn’t want to damage it so I was very gentle this evening...maybe I’ll give that a try tomorrow and see that I can accomplish...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Kiltedpadre 08/02/2019 at 22:38

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Thanks mate. I’ll get back to you tomorrow and see what I can pull off in the morning (GET IT? PULL OFF? BECAUSE I AM REMOVING THE HANDS??? AHAHAHAHA, I AM CLEARLY A MASTER OF COMEDY!) :P

DipodomysDeserti > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/02/2019 at 22:49

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Just go slow. I repaired watches for four years in college, but we wouldn’t touch clocks. We sent them out to a specialized clock guy. There’re are some specialty tools involved. Depending on the clock/watch some are proprietary.

Kiltedpadre > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/02/2019 at 23:02

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I will say that the book is very adamant that you not loosen any portion of the mechanism until you have a key and can confirm there is no tension on the main spring. Now that my safety statement is shared you may return to your regularly scheduled puns.

glemon > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/02/2019 at 23:18

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No expert on old clocks, but generally with old things that started as press fits often become more or less bonded on through exposure to moist air, corrosion, etc. If it were a car I would suggest soaking in PB Blaster overnight. Move slow, look at it closely, think of how it might come apart, wiggle and jiggle, eventually you should get some movement (little clock humor ).

Cash Rewards > glemon 08/03/2019 at 00:25

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That may be true. Press fit 100 years ago very well may a single entity now

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Kiltedpadre 08/03/2019 at 06:40

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Nope, wasn’t really intending on taking apart the mechanism yet....I just wanted to look at it because I know it’s pretty obvious just to see if it any of the bearing locations are worn where the gear shafts pass through on the brass casing!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > DipodomysDeserti 08/03/2019 at 06:41

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Yup, I’ve been trying to take it careful and gently! There used to be a local clock shop 10 minutes from me, but that closed like...12 years ago....the next nearest one is an hour away in Halifax now :/

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Cash Rewards 08/03/2019 at 06:47

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This is true....it does not seem to come off, but I am leery of using something like PB blaster as they are old brass parts and I don’t know if it would be healthy for them...

Old-Busted-Hotness > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 07:02

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You’re on the right track. As others noted, it’s a press fit. Probably won’t fight you too much coming off. Once you get the face off you’ll be able to see the mechanism. Lube the shafts but not the gears. 3-in-1 oil is pretty good for that. There are probably (not sure with Ansonia) clutches between the drive train (gears) and the shafts that turn the hands. That’s so you can adjust the hands. Don’t lube the clutches.

Clock keys are fairly universal so that shouldn’t be a problem.

One thing to watch when reassembling: pushing the hour hand on usually upsets the gears a little. After 100 years the gears have worn into a pattern, and pushing the shaft will dislodge them. Clock might run goofy until they clunk back into place, which they will. You can try to mitigate that by gently tugging the hour hand out after it’s seated on the shaft.

Pendulum clocks are usually pretty sensitive about sitting level. If they’re off by even a little they’ll run down.

As with any old mechanical thing, tuning them gets addictive.

Source: Not an expert, but learning. Inherited my dad’s Seth Thomas #2 and enjoying it way too much.

glemon > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 09:10

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I agree, I said "if it were a car" where I was going with it is I don't think I would try it here though,would be worried about the effect on the clockface and finish of the hands

Old-Busted-Hotness > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 09:15

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The clip may or may not be necessary to hold the hand onto the shaft, but it definitely needs to come off to remove it. It’s not going to be a high tension affair, will probably slide off ad on with only a small effort, assuming it’s not crusted in place, which it probably isn’t. Use a pick or a tiny screwdriver to lever it off.

Old-Busted-Hotness > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 09:17

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Also:

My bird IS the word > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 09:22

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Idk about clock oil, i just use full synthetic engine oil for everything that doesnt need grease. Good metal protection and adhesion properties, stable over long periods. Only thing that may not be good in that application is that it takes in dirt, but more as a way to remove dirt from the system.

Hell, its what I oil my guns with.

Jayvincent > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 09:39

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se wing machine oil or brass instrument slide oil (think trombone) should be good substitutes for clock oil

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Jayvincent 08/03/2019 at 10:36

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Thanks!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > My bird IS the word 08/03/2019 at 13:08

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I read a website that specifically says to use clock oil and NOT WD-40 or engine oil because brass is more sensitive to the additives in other oil types.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Jayvincent 08/03/2019 at 13:10

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@Jayvincent - true, those might be OK....if I can determine whether it’s badly worn or not, I’ll probably go with regular clock oil though...she’s an old girl, it’s nice to give her what she’s supposed to get! :)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Old-Busted-Hotness 08/03/2019 at 13:13

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Eh....it’s fighting me a lot...I’m at the point I feel like pulling on it any harder could damage something behind! As for finding a key, I found a website that gives a good legend for ordering a replacement key. I THINK (from my research), this clock would take about a #6 key...? I can’t measure the key shafts well until I get the clock face off to know for sure...

I haven’t even thought about where I would sit the clock yet...I just want to see if it would even work!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Old-Busted-Hotness 08/03/2019 at 13:13

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Yup...can’t get the face off until I can get that hour hand off...problem is, I don’t have anywhere to lever from as the clock face is very flimsy...

My bird IS the word > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 13:58

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I would follow that then.

Old-Busted-Hotness > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 21:26

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Cool beans. Looks to have a correct movement (that style is known as the Belmont movement). Not the simplest movement, but far from the most complex.

Now poke around a little and see what’s broke.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/03/2019 at 22:03

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Have you seen tomb raider?  Cause I have, I know how to fix the clock, but i don’t know if yours is a special clock.  One way to find out! 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 08/03/2019 at 22:32

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Hmmmm.... :P

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/05/2019 at 14:40

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Used to have a friend that did antique clocks. We have a same era clock that needed work but we put if off and sadly he passed a few years back. Haven’t been able to find anyone in the states willing / able to fix it and the out of country ones are so expensive and shipping can be such a risk it is worth keeping as a shelf ornament . I’ve considered placing modern movement in it, but that would be a disgrace. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > CaptDale - is secretly British 08/05/2019 at 20:57

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What type / make / model of clock? Grandfather? Pendulum? They’re mechanical, so complex, but to be honest, nowhere near as complex as people think...depending what clock it is, I bet you could even look closely at it, figure out what was wrong, take it apart, order a new part and put it back together again. :)

Do you know why it’s broken?

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/06/2019 at 13:15

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No idea to any of your questions. I’ll take a look when I move home

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > CaptDale - is secretly British 08/06/2019 at 13:24

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Sure! You’d be surprised how many parts are available for certain brands!

CaptDale - is secretly British > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 08/06/2019 at 13:38

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yeah I suppose that makes sense